In this episode of the Femme Cyclist podcast, were diving deep into the mental side of cycling with sport psychologist Dr. Erin Ayala. In our chat, Erin shares invaluable insights on some of the biggest challenges we face as cyclists, from that pesky habit of comparing ourselves to others to finding the motivation to train.We also tackle the topic of burnout and how to strike a bike-life balance, so that cycling remains a source of joy, not stress. Erins down-to-earth advice will help you set realistic goals, get up the courage to sign up for that race, and keep pushing forward even when things get tough. If youve ever struggled with self-doubt, felt overwhelmed by juggling it all, or simply needed a little extra motivation to get out the door, this episode is for you. Listen To The InterviewOr Watch On YouTubeStuff We Discuss In This EpisodeThe mental side of cycling, including overcoming self-doubt, anxiety, and burnout.How to find and maintain a healthy bike-life balance, especially during intense training periods.The importance of realistic goal setting and how to handle post-race blues.Navigating the challenges of comparison in cycling and shifting towards a more inclusive mindset.Insight into the role of sports psychologists and how they can benefit cyclists at all levels, not just elite athletes.Connect With Erin Instagram:@skadisportpsychology Website:https://www.skadisportpsychology.com/More Episodes You Might EnjoyHow To Develop Mental Toughness with Joanna ZeigerHow To Develop Your Mountain Bike Skills & Confidence With Joanna YatesTraining, Racing, & Mindset With Pro Racer Abigail SnyderAbout The HostKristen Bonkoski is the founder and owner of Femme Cyclist.An avid cyclist for a few decades now, she took to cycling during her late teen years a time when she needed something to help boost her self-esteem and confidence.Mission accomplished, the sport has become an important part of her life. Kristens favorite disciplines are mountain biking andbike commuting, although youcan also find her crankingout a century on her road bike and touring with her husband and son. If it has to do with two wheels, she enjoys doing it.Kristen is a certified USA Cycling coach, and she runsRascal Rides, a website about biking with kids.IG:@femme_cyclistFull Interview TranscriptTranscript has been edited for clarity.Kristen Bonkoski: 0:00In this episode of the Femme Cyclist Podcast, were diving deep into the mental side of cycling with sports psychologist Erin Ayala. In our chat, Erin shares invaluable insights on some of the biggest challenges we face as cyclists, from that pesky habit of comparing ourselves to others to finding the motivation to train. We also tackle the topic of burnout and how to strike a bike life balance. So cycling remains a source of joy, not stress. Erins down-to-earth advice will help you set realistic goals, get up the courage to sign up for that race and keep pushing forward, even when things get tough.Kristen Bonkoski: 0:45If youve ever struggled with self-doubt, felt overwhelmed by juggling it all, or simply needed a little extra motivation to get out the door, this episode is for you. Real quick. Before we jump into todays episode, I want to tell you about the training plans Ive created for you all. Whether youre looking to get a little fitter or faster, or you have a big event or race you need to prepare for, a structured training plan can help you achieve your goals. I have a variety of pre-made training plans you can choose from, or I can build you a custom training plan specific to your needs. Podcast listeners get 50% off with coupon code PODCAST50. Head to femcyclist.com to get started today. Who can benefit from working with a sports psychologist?Erin Ayala: 1:36The easy answer is anyone. So I think one of the big things with sports psychology a lot of people feel like they need to be like pro or elite or serious about whatever sport it is that theyre doing and honestly, it couldnt be further from the truth. I have a lot of clients who wouldnt even call themselves athletes, and so theres a huge continuum. I think people who could benefit are people who might be feeling a little bit lost and kind of finding their why. They may have started riding or running or another sport for one reason and for a lot of people, for example, it might be to get healthier or to find community and then that reason has kind of shifted and they might be feeling a little bit lost and want to kind of unpack their athletic identity. Sports psych is awesome for that Mental health concerns anyone who has a history of mental health concerns and then it starts to leak into, like bike life balance.Erin Ayala: 2:33Sports psych can be really helpful venue because the sports psychologist is kind of going to get that athletic identity component and understanding how it affects mental health in general. I think other things race to. Anxiety is huge and wildly common and sports psych can definitely help with those sorts of things. And then another big theme that I often see, actually two more like confidence, kind of self-doubt sense of in, um, am I a good enough athlete? Just some of that identity stuff. And then the final thing is athletic injury can be really big, Um, and that can also include like complex and chronic health concerns, chronic pain, Um, perimenopause symptoms is another thing that is having a moment for a good reason now, and you know that definitely affects athletic identity and athletic performance for female athletes, and so lots of different opportunities for sports psych to come into play.Kristen Bonkoski: 3:31So its good for everybody. When does it change from being a nice to have to a must have? Who, would you absolutely say, needs to get in to see somebody like you?Erin Ayala: 3:41Totally. Yeah, such a great question. I think some of the big red flags are when, like, mental health concerns really start to bubble up and affect your ability to find joy and satisfaction in sport. So it feels like a grind. Its not just a funker plateau in the sense that it lasts a few weeks or longer, if you know.Erin Ayala: 4:05Its normal, for example, to have post-race blues after, like a really big event that you might be training for. But if after four to six weeks, like, youre still not feeling motivated, thats usually a sign that there might be something deeper going on. So mental health concerns are usually the biggest thing and its also things where its like affecting multiple areas of life, where its not just sport, its also affecting family relationships or how you feel about yourself, your ability to work in a really engaged or productive manner and show up as the person you want to be. And sports psych is kind of a funky field which well get a little bit into. But on one side of the Venn diagram is mental health and then on other side is performance, and so its like when the mental health stuff starts to leak into the performance stuff, thats usually a sign that its time to make a phone call, do some searches and find someone who can help for backup.Kristen Bonkoski: 5:01You mentioned earlier bike life balance. What did you mean by that?Erin Ayala: 5:05Yes, biking especially takes a lot of time, especially when training for longer races, for any like long, like gravel, for example. I do unbound every year and the long rides are just like. Ill look at my weekend calendar and be like, oh my gosh, Im just going to be riding all weekend, which is fun, but like what about laundry and meal prep and like time with my family, self-care, all of these other things? It starts to feel really overwhelming, especially at the kind of the height of the season when youre getting a lot of volume in and so bike life balance is going to look a little bit different for everyone, but it can create quite a bit of strain on relationships and then other areas of our life when it starts to take over more kind of more of a footprint or more of a blueprint or more real estate in our brain, and so its trying to have realistic expectations of being.Erin Ayala: 6:04It might be for family, for example. Lets say youre training for an event and your goal is to like finish a 100 mile ride, talking to anyone in the family or significant other and being like, hey, the next couple of weeks are going to be really busy because this is my biggest build. So like apologies and thank you in advance for letting me let things go with laundry or cleaning or going to your games or activities or skipping out on dinners because I want to go to bed early. Just, I think being really proactive with those boundaries is important because then you dont start to feel resentful or some of that kind of quote, unquote, mom guilt or other things that can show up for parents or other people who like to give and spend time with others.Kristen Bonkoski: 6:49Yeah, one thing that I know that Ive always kind of used biking as something to deal with anxiety, with depression. Its really important for my mental health, and I think that thats true of a lot of endurance athletes. We get into it for that mental health component. When does it, though, become a crutch? Is it ever an issue using sport as kind of this mental health?Erin Ayala: 7:12totally. I think its often. I think it often starts as a crutch or like its. It starts as a coping mechanism and then what can happen? Especially if we get injured? The rug is pulled out from under us and then we dont have that coping mechanism anymore and then we really start to struggle. And so I always say, like weve got to have multiple coping mechanisms in the tool belt. Exercise can be one of them and arguably should be. Like research supports the benefits of exercise. We know that.Erin Ayala: 7:41So then its like asking yourself why am I going out for this ride, is it? I always say get curious. Like dont judge yourself right away, like our minds love to judge. That was a good ride, that was a bad ride, whatever it might be. But just get curious.Erin Ayala: 7:55Whats motivating me to get on the bike right now or to go to the gym, or whatever it might be? Is it feeling of guilt, or like falling behind, or the scarcity of like other people are doing more than I am, so I need to do more. Or is it more of like I had a stressful day? I just need some alone time and then start to kind of unpack your relationship with exercise, because it can start to get problematic when you feel like this urgency or this need to do it and you feel like you dont have other coping skills. So this other stress management skills are super important to help you with that balance because then exercise you wont burn out as quickly, less likely to get injured. But then if youre unable to use that outlet for one reason or another, youve got backups.Kristen Bonkoski: 8:41Yeah, you mentioned post-race blues and I think thats such a relatable thing for me. Every time I do a race, I have like a day or two afterward where I have this huge high life is great and Ive never felt better, and then like this down and what comes next? How do you deal with that?Erin Ayala: 8:59Thats super common and youll also find a lot of endurance. Athletes will like go straight to the like online blogs and being like, what race can I sign up for next? Im going to bike reg locations and like, oh, Ive got really good fitness, like whats my next thing, right? So theres a couple of things to think about with this. One is post-race blues are super common and it just as you described. The first couple of days youre like, oh, that was amazing. And then youre still resting and recovering from a really hard effort, so your volume isnt as big. And then if you dont have another race or event on the calendar, you may not have structure. So you may be looking at, like, if you use training peaks or work with a coach, its like blank or all rest days, and that creates anxiety for a lot of athletes because its like whats our next thing that were working toward?Erin Ayala: 9:48So post-race blues usually show up as kind of this just kind of blah attitude. You may not feel as motivated. You might feel like the fatigue, both emotionally and physically. You might be a little more irritable, like more I dont know, just like not wanting to kind of get out and do things. Its just kind of a thunk or a, if it lasts and this is one of those things where, if it lasts more than like two to three weeks, then there might be something deeper going on, um, which could just be burnout, like athletic burnout, right, um. But often its this like I dont know whats next for me, and this kind of aimlessness and what am I working toward next.Erin Ayala: 10:29And so then well go to these training calendars or event calendars and look for our next thing, which theres nothing wrong with that, as long as we dont burn ourselves out or get get injured from overtraining, right? So I often ask athletes, like what motivated you to sign up in the first place? Go back to your why, um? And then lets think about, like are there other areas of your life that youve unintentionally or intentionally had to set aside or neglect? Can you lean into those areas for a little bit, um, kind of recalibrate? And then I encourage my athletes not to sign up for any more, like big races in the first week after a big race, cause sometimes its more of that impulsivity and being like, lets talk to family first. Lets look at your work schedule, like does the travel you know, footprint make sense? And just helping them be more intentional with the decision.Kristen Bonkoski: 11:17Yeah, I think for a lot of folks that I talked to, they dont even recognize the symptoms of burnout which you mentioned, and there is a physical component of burnout, um, but what about the mental piece? What are some of the kind of the signs that were mentally burnt out and how do we deal with that?Erin Ayala: 11:35Yes, um, some of the telltale signs that Ill see in my athletes and of course its a little bit different for everyone um, higher than usual or higher than normal levels of self-criticism or like this One of the telltale signs of burnout is this lack of personal achievement, or lack of personal accomplishment of like, what I did wasnt that big of a deal, it didnt really matter, Im not really making a difference and kind of questioning your contributions, making a difference and kind of questioning your contributions. So, if that you know, female athletes in general, especially in endurance, tend to be hard on themselves. Yes, so its like what is the baseline? And then if it is a lot higher, where it feels like more than usual, that could be a burnout sign.Erin Ayala: 12:19Motivation is a at the end of the day, um, motivation is a at the end of the day. Burnout is a motivation problem, um, and so when motivation really goes downhill and you start finding yourself like making excuses or giving yourself reasons to not do a workout because you had a long day at work, or youre just like, oh, I could use an extra rest day, it was a long season, or oh, I need to run to the grocery store and get such and such things that usually wouldnt get in the way of your workouts. Thats usually another sign that burnout is kind of there, um, and then its just like a lack of interest in things like biking, where usually it might be like, oh, I want to watch this world cup race, and then we just are like, eh, whatever, um, so were just not as interested in like the cycling scene and kind of reading up on the latest and greatest.Kristen Bonkoski: 13:08Thats also a burnout is it okay at that point just to say Im gonna be done for a while yeah, yeah, the honestly like the quote-unquote best cure for burnout is to take a break, okay, and just rest.Erin Ayala: 13:23Yeah, its really hard for endurance athletes so hard.Erin Ayala: 13:26Yeah, and thats why its like tricky too with sports psych, because like there it could be depression, yeah. So thats where, like seeing a sports psychologist can be really helpful. And when I say sports psychologist, I mean like a licensed mental health clinician who also has training in sport and performance, because theres also mental performance coaches out there who can be amazing, but if they dont have training in mental health therapy, they may not know to look for depression as a potential explanation for a lack of motivation, right. So theres like a lot of messy nuances. Lack of motivation, right? So theres like a lot of messy nuances and so, like, burnout and depression can look similar on the surface, but the treatment is and the reasons behind it are wildly different. So, like, taking a break for depression, not the best idea. In that case, its like nope, get your butt on the bike or move your body in a different way, because you know exercise is really important. And then you know therapy, meds, vitamin D, all of those other things.Kristen Bonkoski: 14:31So one of the things that I personally really matters to me is trying to get more women to show up at races. Yes, you know, I go to running races and theres usually a pretty good percentage that are female. I go to bike races and its usually a pretty good percentage that are female. I go to bike races and its usually a very small percentage that are female.Erin Ayala: 14:49Yep.Kristen Bonkoski: 14:51I mean, obviously there are lots of reasons for that, many of them cultural, but as far as the mental piece, like as an individual listening to this, Im interested in racing, Im scared. What would you say to that person? Id say, like most people are, you know, like Im scared, what, what?Erin Ayala: 15:05would you say to that person? Yeah, Id say, like most people are, you know, like most people are scared and Im trying to find I think its. Its. I came from the world of triathlon, which I started with as a runner, and then I went to triathlon and then I was like I always joke, I was the bottom 20th percentile for swimmers and the triathlon leg, but like the top 20th for cycling, right, and I was like I always joke, I was the bottom 20th percentile for swimmers and the triathlon leg, but like the top 20th for cycling and.Kristen Bonkoski: 15:28I was like Im just going to ride my bike some more.Erin Ayala: 15:31This is what Im good at, so. But coming to the cycling scene was really a culture shift. It was kind of a culture shock in a lot of ways because of what you just noted with the gender differences, and it was hard to like make friends and find people. So I think the advice that I have is you know, hop on, you know Facebook groups or other communities where there are women in cycling and ask them for event recommendations in your area. Or if you want to get adventurous and are willing to travel for a race, then ask for recommendations, because some races are way more kind of community-based and inclusive than others. And so then youre setting yourself up for success. Even though its scary, youre more likely to have a really nice time once youre there.Erin Ayala: 16:23So that is one piece of advice asking for help and support, even if you feel like its silly or not necessary, like I remember when I first started riding gravel. Like asking an Instagram connection, like should I run like 35s or 40s for my tires? And in hindsight, like that wasnt sure tire width can be helpful, um, but it wouldnt have made or broken my day, you know. So it like I, I had a lot of self-doubt in questioning equipment decisions and what should I wear, and, um, like what is the start going to be like when its a mass start and were also starting with guys, like just be willing to ask those questions, because if youve got them, chances are other women have also had those questions and theyre happy to share their insights. So I say like, find other women to mentor you, for sure. Or bring a buddy, and being like no expectations If we finish, great, if we dont, thats cool too. So just bring an adventure, buddy.Kristen Bonkoski: 17:24I saw an Instagram post I think it was quite a while ago from you, but I really, really appreciated it and it was about not saying, oh, at least I wasnt last, or you know, Im happy as long as I dont finish last.Erin Ayala: 17:37At least I didnt finish last, yep yeah, at least.Kristen Bonkoski: 17:39I didnt finish last. Why do you discourage that? Yes?Erin Ayala: 17:43Such a like, such a loaded thing, because its so ingrained in a lot of us. Its racing, so comparison is inevitable. Right, results are online, theyre posted, and the thing I always say is theres nothing wrong with finishing last. And so when we start to say, at least I didnt finish last, it places this value on being faster and like idea that being last is a bad thing when we have no idea for, like, the people who have finished last, no idea what they have been through in order to finish that race and finishing maybe a huge accomplishment. And so when we compare our poor performance or what we feel is a disappointing performance to someone saying like well, at least we didnt finish last, were placing this like value of like well, at least Im not them, or at least Im not in their position, which is just not a very like fun, welcoming or inclusive vibe to bring to the sport of cycling, which can at times be pretty like rowy, for lack of a better word Right, yeah. And so I think its really important to change that culture.Erin Ayala: 18:57And so whenever I have athletes or clients being like whats your goal? And their goal is like dont finish last, Ill be like why not? Whats like what if you did finish last? You could finish and show up as, like, the best, most competent athlete youve ever been. You could bring a whole lot of joy on the course, turn yourself inside out, thank all of the volunteers. He will like a carb eating champion and finish last, and thats still something to be proud of. So so instead, its like regardless of what place youre in, how do you want to show up on race day? Its like, regardless of what place youre in, how do you want to show up on race day? Thats how you make goals right, like what do I want my vibe to be and, based off of that vibe, what would my actions and behaviors be? And then those are your goals.Kristen Bonkoski: 19:43So much of that, too, is a comparison thing, right Saying well, at least Im not this person who came in last. And thats something that I personally really struggle with, and Ive gotten a lot better, but still something I struggle with is twofold is that if somebody is faster than me or more skilled than me, or whatever the case may be, I feel bad about myself, that Im not a true athlete, Im not as impressive as this person. And I do it the other way around too, where, like, I go on a group ride and I get to the top of the climb first, Im like, oh, look at me. A little pat on my back, maybe Im not as bad as I thought.Erin Ayala: 20:14I was Right Right.Kristen Bonkoski: 20:15Exactly, and, and I mean in no way, is that the person that I want to be? I want to be this super inclusive person.Erin Ayala: 20:23I want to be cheering on those people and myself, yep, how would you get out of that trap of this like comparing myself to everybody else. I treat it really similar to how I treat like body image concerns, anxiety before races, like quote unquote negative self-talk. I say quote unquote, negative because were the ones who make it negative, like its our interpretation. So one of the kind of big, I guess the main modality of sports psychology that I use comes from the therapy world. Its called acceptance and commitment therapy and the goal behind it is to learn to take our thoughts less seriously and to see them as neutral. So thoughts are just thoughts and so then when we put them in a bigger context, like the comparison of like Im not as good as so-and-so, or Ill never be as fast as so-and-so, or whats the point when Im not getting better, those are all just thoughts. When Im not getting better, those are all just thoughts. Its our value that like we put them on and make them feel like theyre a bad thing. So Ill give you a couple of examples. Like if we use the kind of one of the main ones that I use, I say, lets say the story of like Im not good enough. This is like the Im not good enough theme is a really big one for most athletes. Enough theme is a really big one for most athletes. So when you say Im not good enough if we change it to, Im having the thought that Im not good enough. All of a sudden its a little bit less potent, and then you can go one step further and say I noticed, Im having the thought that Im not good enough. Now, its just a thought that youve noticed right. So naming the story can be really helpful, because its kind of like the whole idea of what you say. Like dont think about a pink elephant. The first thing that comes to mind is a pink elephant saying like dont compare yourself to others.Erin Ayala: 22:21The same process happens where automatically, were going to start to compare ourselves to others or ourselves, and so then what we do instead is we just recognize this is a normal human thing. We like to get feedback on how were doing and how were progressing. So comparison is normal and inevitable. Its just how much we let it take the drivers seat and kind of jerk us around. Thats what we need to work on is our response or our reaction to the comparison. So what you can then do is being like oh, heres the comparison cycle. Im familiar with this. I know how this goes and just when it shows up and then kind of recalibrate and being like what am I working on? Today? Im working on being really great at dissents, so thats what Im going to focus on. So you just have to kind of check in with yourself, bring yourself back and then not beat yourself up for it when it happens, because itll happen.Kristen Bonkoski: 23:09So maybe somebody was listening and theyve taken your advice. Theyre going to go sign up for a race. What can they do ahead of time to start preparing mentally for?Erin Ayala: 23:18that. Oh yeah, so many things. Research shows that mental and physical preparation really sets you up for success on race day, and a lot of athletes forget about the mental preparation piece often because its not talked about, but they also just dont know what to do. And so theres a couple of things that go into it Just knowing your schedule in advance, knowing the route, knowing where the aid stations or checkpoints are, and like putting the route on your if you use a bike head unit, bike computer, uploading it in advance, mapping out like okay, how long is it going to take me to drive from wherever Im sleeping, whether its home or an Airbnb or hotel to the start of the race. How much time does that take? And like reverse engineering that for scheduling Even things like planning your meals the night beforehand, especially if youre traveling, like make a reservation somewhere the night before just so you have peace of mind. Um, or if youre staying, like with a team and org friends with an Airbnb, like order groceries for delivery, so that its like you dont have to worry about after a long drive, or getting settled in. You dont have to go and figure out, like what are we going to have for dinner? So just basically try to remove decisions that you dont have to make around race weekend, like make them earlier, and your future self will thank you.Erin Ayala: 24:40The other thing thats really important is having realistic goals and expectations. So I often joke, especially with my teens one of the most common goals Ill say, whats your goal for the weekend? Ill be like dont die. Ill be like, okay, thats a start Right. And then it might be like dont be last, and Ill be like, okay, so what does that mean for you? And so realistic goals are really important and we put a lot of weight on outcome goals, which is essentially how you compare to others. Theres nothing wrong with outcome goals as long as we know how to get there, and thats where most athletes fall short. So Ill say like get really specific if you can, and basically ask yourself in advance where am I most likely to struggle on this course or during this event? Is it with, like nutrition? Or is it in a really technical section, cause I dont feel good about my bike handling? Or is it the notorious pain cave like two thirds of the way through the race? Is it when it gets really hot, cause I dont like to ride in heat? So ask yourself when am I going to struggle? And then, when, if and when that happens, what do I need to do to navigate it, like successfully or effectively? That becomes a goal. And so then its like okay, when the pain cave hits at mile such and such and I tell myself I should just ease up or I should just quit, then I will take a moment, take a few deep breaths. I will take a moment, take a few deep breaths recenter, recalibrate and start to play like.Erin Ayala: 26:12Counting colors is a game that I like to play where its like find three red things around you, find three orange things, find three yellow things and go through the colors of the rainbow. That helps you ground yourself. It helps with mindfulness. Its a good distraction. That helps you ground yourself. It helps with mindfulness. Its a good distraction. You have a job. You can also remind yourself like just keep pedaling. Or you can use like comes from.Erin Ayala: 26:38Rebecca Rush shared this during a panel and I dont know who originally gets credit for it. But no matter how good or bad you feel, it wont last. So even when youre kind of like okay, when I hit the pain cave or the dark and stormy miles, I know this feeling is not going to last, right, right. So I think thats important for the preparation. People are often like think positive or visualize success. Its like yes, and we need to be realistic about what that looks like. Um, bike racing is hard, and if you are really racing for like a PR or for a podium spot, or to like push yourself in a way that you havent, its going to hurt and its going to suck, and so you need to be prepared for that.Erin Ayala: 27:14Like there cant be like Im going to feel like a superhero the whole time, because you wont. If youre racing well, it means that youre pushing those boundaries and it is going to hurt, right?Kristen Bonkoski: 27:23Set those expectations accordingly right, set those expectations accordingly. So Do you think, do you ever see people studying realistic goal, realistic goals in their mind, that where theyre setting the bar too low? And the reason I asked this is Ive learned from my son. Very first time he ever did a downhill race. He told me Im going to win and I immediately told him no, youre not going to win, thats like no. And he went out and won and yeah and um, and that just made me realize like who am I to lower, try to lower his expectations and I think as women, we probably do that quite often to ourselves too Like I could never make the podium. I could never do this.Erin Ayala: 28:07Right, yep, yeah, thats thats I think so important is asking yourself, oh, I could never make the podium, I could never do this, right, Yep, yeah, thats thats I think so important is asking yourself, like I always say, like a good goal should feel, it should feel like a reach, where its like, well, things are going to really have to come together for for this to happen. Yeah, and then use your former results to help inform your future goals, cause that can also like, if you are always reaching your goals, I mean thats cool. And it also depends on your value system, right? Because if you, if your goals, if your values are all about like community, for example, like giving back altruism, your performance and your goals in terms of how you compare to others may not be super important to you. Yeah, so then, like thats cool, if youre the type of person where, like that, your performance and your goals in terms of how you compare to others may not be super important to you.Kristen Bonkoski: 28:49Yeah.Erin Ayala: 28:49So then, like thats cool.Erin Ayala: 28:51If youre the type of person where, like that achievement is important but youre more of a perfectionist, you might set goals that are like too low or too high, and then you can set yourself up for disappointment as a result. So its having that kind of a post race reflection can be wildly helpful. And what I tell a lot of athletes is like when were students quote unquote good students if were students who, like care about performance, if we get a test and then we get it back, were going to look through the questions that we got, right and wrong, to review how we did and like what did I miss? And we dont always do that for racing or cycling and Im like, why not? So look back on the race and ask yourself, like what did I miss? And then learn from that, and then that can also inform your goals for next time, right? So? And then its also recognizing like hold those goals lightly, because weather conditions can vary extremely, like the course conditions can really affect time, especially off-road, and so its reminding yourself of that as well.Kristen Bonkoski: 29:58So what do you think the value of racing is for folks who say, you know, Im never going to be on the podium?Erin Ayala: 30:02I think a lot of endurance athletes we all have our own stuff and thats one of the ways that we unpack it Working toward a goal. So lets say youre a middle of pack racer and you want to do like a 50 miler, having the structure for training and then following through on that structure, and then the race itself is like your dessert or the icing on the cake, where you get to earn like the opportunity to finish that race and feel good about it. So its more about you and your process, so much less about how you compare to others. And being like this was really good for me because I trained, I prioritized my health, my wellness, in order to get to this start line, and so then this is where I really enjoy what Ive worked so hard for. Thats a fun way to frame it.Kristen Bonkoski: 31:09What about folks that kind of struggle with that training and that process piece, that this is very much me. I get to a race and Im very type A and Im like, oh, but wait, I wasnt very type A while I was training. Yeah, so how do you deal with that part? I mean the less fun aspects.Erin Ayala: 31:30Totally. Yeah, there are three core ingredients. When we look at the research, theres like kind of predictors of motivation, because, you know, with training consistency, some athletes love training and like they love the grind when racing is not their jam, and then others are the opposite, kind of like what you said, like yeah, bring me to the race. Its the daily grind and the training. Yeah. So in order to increase motivation, theres three levers that you can kind of pull on. The first one is a sense of autonomy or like having a choice in the matter. So its asking yourself what kind of training do I have and am I happy with it? And so a really common example would be like group rides or Zwift races, Like they may not give you the most bang for your buck in terms of training and fitness because theyre not prescriptive, youre not doing formal intervals, but if they motivate you and youve got a choice to do them, youre more likely to do them, and so having choices in the matter. So for anyone who has like a formal coach, talking to your coach about the types of workouts that you like and dont like, or asking your coach to give you options, like once a week where youre like, okay, so my coach used to do like Im in Minnesota, so weve got plenty of snow, usually in the winter, and so he would do things like okay, you can do fat bike, you can do snowshoes, you can hike, you can ski, just get out for two hours. And that was great for motivation, because then I had a choice yeah.Erin Ayala: 32:54Second lover or ingredient is a sense of relatedness or belonging. So find some buddies or accountability buddies, and it might be things as silly as being like okay, if I dont send you a selfie with my butt out of bed on the trainer by 7am on Friday, I owe you $20. Like, if you need to gamify it, you can. Or have a standing like date with some of your training buddies where its just like once a week you do your recovery rides together at like 7pm on Wednesdays, because then its not a decision you have to make, its just something you do, and then you feel like you belong, youve got someone to relate to.Erin Ayala: 33:33And then the third and final lever is a sense of competence and looking for improvements. So if we feel like were not really making progress, were not going to be as motivated. So its like taking time out of your workouts and being what went well today and like what did I improve on? Um, and it might be something like oh, my heart rate recovered more quickly in between the third and fourth interval. Um, thats a sign of increased fitness, thats cool. Or like I didnt get dropped right away in the zwift race, awesome, awesome. So its like making sure you give yourself credit and that can help consistency.Kristen Bonkoski: 34:06I love that second part, that community piece, because thats been huge for me personally. So many women I talk to, though, have this fear of not belonging or struggling finding that community. Theyre afraid to show up to a group ride that theyre going to get dropped. Theyre maybe afraid to up to a group ride that theyre going to get dropped. Theyre maybe afraid to go into the bike shop because theyre going to get mansplained. How do you get over that piece of struggle.Erin Ayala: 34:32I think some of it is like often we create these roles where were like Ill feel more confident when, or Ill do such and such when I feel more confident where we like put this like theres a contingency there. Its like, well, as long as Im feeling such and such, then Ill be okay. Um, or like I Ill feel more confident when I win my first race, or you know, or when I go to a bike shop and Im not mansplained and theres not a lot of like. We cant control our emotions and our feelings, unfortunately. As humans, we just like to avoid the difficult ones, and so what we need to do instead is lean into them and make room for them and then ask ourselves, like, okay, if Im showing up as that best version of myself and if Im showing up as, like that confident version of me that I want to be, what would that look like? What would I be doing? And thats where you start.Erin Ayala: 35:27Yeah, so really, we know the behaviors come before the feelings when it comes to confidence, and so its being like okay, if I felt confident, what would I be doing? And then can I create one like goal or behavior based off of that of being like yep, Im going to go into the bike shop and Im going to tell them, like this part of my bike is squeaking and I think it might be this, but Im not sure, and were going to give them a chance to not mansplain, yeah, and then, if they do, then have some like plans around that being like, is there another staff member that I could speak, with plans around that being like, is there another staff member that I could speak with, Um or oh? Interesting that you assumed that I dont know about that, Um, because my understanding is dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. So like there are different those are like the microaggressions.Erin Ayala: 36:10There are different ways to respond. Sometimes its best to just drop it, Um, other times its best to, you know, throw some shade, um, and like give them, you know, give them something back. It depends on your personality and your vibe and how much energy you have that day yeah, thats gold.Kristen Bonkoski: 36:26Thank you for that yeah what have I not asked you that you would like folks to?Erin Ayala: 36:30know, um, probably something on like finding sports psychologists and how to find a person such a messy, complex, nuanced field. I, admittedly, might ruffle some feathers when I say this, Im just going to say it. They are like anyone can call themselves a mental performance coach. Just because someone has been an athlete who has dealt with mental stuff does not mean therell be a good mental performance coach, or it doesnt mean they have the competence to be one. Similar to we see this with endurance coaching as well. Right, like anyone can call themselves a cycling coach. What is their training, what is their credentials? They might be a really great human being with really great intentions, but may not realize, like they may not know what they dont know. And so when youre looking for a sports psychology provider, its okay and important to be picky, especially if theres any sort of mental health, because then you really want to find a licensed mental health clinician. And so we can kind of think back to that Venn diagram. Lets say youve got injury recovery, performance, anxiety, motivation, burnout, where you dont really have a history of depression and youre not concerned about depression, team drama. Those are all like focus, goal setting. Those are all things that are totally appropriate for a mental performance coach to help you with mental toughness. Look for the CMPC acronym. It stands for Certified Mental Performance Consultant and that is kind of the current gold standard of what weve got in the field to kind of show training and credibility. So people who have a CMPC, they have to have a masters degree related to sports, psychology or counseling field. They have to have, I want to say its like 200 hours working with athletes, 50 hours of mentorship with a formal supervisor. They have to have coursework in certain areas. So its pretty, theyre vetted. And then the other side of the diagram for mental health, if youve got any history of depression or anxiety or any other mental health concerns, I really do think its important to find a licensed mental health clinician who also has expertise in sport, because a generalist mental health clinician may not understand how important sport is in your life and may forget to ask about those things and then you just dont feel seen because theyre missing this huge part of your life. So to find a person is, unfortunately it can be pretty hard Ask, ask like friends if you know friends.Erin Ayala: 39:18The kind of one of the gold standard databases is the USOPC mental health registry. State states are funky with licensure because if you have a mental health therapist, they need to be licensed in your state where youre physically located. And then if youre an athlete who travels a lot for races, that also makes it funky because they have to be licensed to wherever youre traveling as well. Um, so theres this thing called PSYPACT, and I realized theres a lot of acronyms. I can give you info and like we could add them to the show notes. But PSYPACT is basically like a drivers license for psychologists, where our license is seen as legit and I think 42 States at this point.Erin Ayala: 39:59So so the USOPC mental health registry its like you can just Google it and itll come up and its a big Excel sheet and it lists all of the providers in there have expertise in sport and mental health, and then you can search by insurance and state and so like if you start anywhere, thats a really kind of safe place. And then people can also just contact me. Im always, Im always helping people find others, because they know Im picky and get in a soapbox about this stuff sometimes, and so I can also help kind of use my network and being like okay, because also cycling is a really kind of funky sport and you, you dont want to have to explain all of the like. What does it mean to, like, find a good line, or hug someones wheel, or you know, like, like, theres this lingo and we, we get it, um, and so you want to find someone who gets it. So um?Kristen Bonkoski: 40:54can people work with you on like online virtually, or do you?Erin Ayala: 40:57Yeah, so, um, I do. Id say 50% of my sessions are are virtual Um cause only 50% of my clients right now are in Minnesota. Um, and so its pretty cool Cause Ive got folks from all over the U? S right now, I think, 14 or 15 different States. I represented Um and its kind of the hubs that youd expect in the cycling world, which is kind of fun.Erin Ayala: 41:19Um, Ive got you know, like a little niche and kind of like Pacific Northwest Colorado group, so like theres different areas right now, like books are full, which is a good problem to have, but a problem nonetheless because I just I dont have room for more individual athletes.Erin Ayala: 41:37So one way that Ive kind of worked around that is I created a recently created an online course and thats all about race day preparation. So its basically I kind of dumped all of the tools and knowledge that I use for race day prep with my individual clients into an online learning management system and so for that, basically, what I did is I basically just said, okay, weve got different lessons, here are the things that are really important for race day prep, and then theres a video, there are activities, theres a very nerdy interactive spreadsheet to help with planning, and so people can use that and access that anytime. The course is live Right now. Its live until September 27th, I think is when were closing the doors, and then probably Black Friday sale and then another one at the start of spring. So thats another option.Kristen Bonkoski: 42:25And where can people come find that and where can they follow you in general, online Instagram, scotty Sports Psychology.Erin Ayala: 42:32Scotty is S-K-A-D-I and sport is singular. And then my website is scottysportpsychologycom, and so Instagram is where I spend most of my time connecting with people. Im not big on Facebook. Im kind of like the in-betweener with generations, but also not on TikTok Same. So Instagram is my jam, so Im the one who runs the account. You can totally message me there if youve got questions. Website has like a contact me for email, all that fun stuff.Kristen Bonkoski: 43:03So and you do offer just a lot of good tips and information on that Instagram account as well.Erin Ayala: 43:08Thats my goal. Like we post every day its like its, its important to me. I want to give back. The field of sports psychology unfortunately is not super accessible and thats one of my goals is to make it more accessible and like less intimidating for people, to kind of get a feel for it, and so then they know what to expect if they decide to make the leap.Kristen Bonkoski: 43:27So yeah, Ive got three final questions for you. The first one is what bike or bikes do you ride?Erin Ayala: 43:34Oh gosh. Okay, I have five in my fleet right now. Ive got an Otso Voitek, which is a fat bike. Otso is a really cool company based here in the Twin Cities, so that one I feel like Im on like a monster truck in the snow on the single track and it is so fun in winter. I have a steel single speed gunner frame RIP because they went out of business this past year, but thats like a small Wisconsin based company. Um, and I I love that bike. Its super fun. Um. And then Ive got a specialized diverge for my long gravel with gears. So like my 200 milers, Ill do on that one or the really climby races where I need gears. Ive got a specialized tarmac for road and then Ive got a specialized Epic Evo for a mountain bike and that is like that ones a lot of fun, but my mountain biking skills are mediocre at best Im like little Bellas level. So those are my bikes and I love them all for different reasons.Kristen Bonkoski: 44:40Very good. Second question is wheres your favorite place? Youve ever ridden your bike?Erin Ayala: 44:46Ooh, oh, thats so hard. Um, theres a couple of things that come to mind. Um, one is really random, but, um, theodore Roosevelt national park, and there they have this big loop road and the way that the park ranger explained it is, the terrain is kind of like Swiss cheese. Theres just a lot of holes underneath, and the roads for that national park were not built for these 40-foot RVs, and so the road collapsed and is closed. So my spouse and I rode on the closed road, um, when we went through the park and it was breathtaking, it was so cool. Um, so that was a really amazing ride. Um, glacier National Park is beautiful. Um, I havent done the going to the sun road, but the last best ride is a race thats out there. Thats equally challenging, as it is breathtaking. Um, I feel like there was another one that came to mind. I love the Flint Hills and unbound. I just have a spot for it, like the, the wildflowers and how rugged and exposed that terrain is. Um, so, yeah, its hard to pick one.Kristen Bonkoski: 46:01I love the Theodore Roosevelt one. Ive never heard anyone say that.Erin Ayala: 46:04Yeah, yeah, that was a really cool one.Kristen Bonkoski: 46:07Final question is what is your favorite thing about riding your bike?Erin Ayala: 46:11My favorite thing. I think its. I dont want to say it forces me to be unplugged because I can still listen to podcasts and music, but it is like it urges me to connect more mindful and intentional with my surroundings. I can push as hard or as little as I want to. It has connected me with so many amazing people. I think thats probably one of the main things I love about it. Its not even the riding itself, its like what the community represents. And then its also a reflection of just my own personal journey and growth, because Ive unpacked so many skeletons in the closet while on those really long rides and worked through so much stuff personally and professionally, leaned into my professional identity as a sports psychologist, in large part because of cycling right.Kristen Bonkoski: 47:16Id love to ask you a favor If you enjoyed this episode, can you please go ahead and share it? You can do that by sharing it on your Instagram stories or just letting a friend know about it. The more that you help us get the word out, the more women we reach, the better quality of guests we get on the show. So its a team effort and I really, really appreciate you. Until next time, happy riding.Are You Listening To The Femme Cyclist Podcast?!?A podcast for women who love bicycles! We we celebrate all forms of riding and all forms of women, so whether youre a road cyclist, mountain biker, or bike commuter, youll find your community here. Each week well week bring you interviews from inspiring women, and offer tips and tricks to help you thrive on the bike.The post Dr. Erin Ayala Interview: Mental Strategies For Cyclists appeared first on Femme Cyclist.